Last month , the media conglomerate Univisionagreed to acquireGizmodo and five other sites from Gawker Media for $ 135 million . On September 9 , the 24-hour interval before the sale became final , two Univision executives , Jay Grant and Felipe Holguin , vote over the objections of Gawker Media ’s executive editorto delete six posts — three at Deadspin , two at Gizmodo , and one at Jezebel — that are presently the subject of ongoing judicial proceeding .
https://gizmodo.com/univision-executives-vote-to-delete-six-gawker-media-po-1786466510
The reaction to this determination , among Gawker Media staffers and other phallus of the press , was almost universally damaging . The deleted posts concerned the controversy surrounding V.A. Shiva Ayyadurai , who has repeatedly claimed to be the original inventor of email despite twisty evidence that the reliable inventor was Ray Tomlinson ; the fickle behavior of M.L.B. psychoanalyst Mitch Williams at several youth baseball game game * ; the infamous buttoned-down round Charles C. Johnson ; and a lawsuit filed by a man acquitted of sexual assault against the legal web log Above the Law . All of the Emily Post were newsworthy and held public figures to account . In the Mitch Williams case , Gawker Mediahad already won a summary judgmentagainst the field ’s defamation cause in a New Jersey court .
Present for the interview , besides Gizmodo and Lee , were Jay Grant , who is currently do as the interim general counsellor for the six assume Gawker Media sites ; David Ford , the vice president of merchandising and communications at the Univision foot soldier Fusion ; and Chocolate , a brown labrador retriever .
As a condition of the interview , Univision expect Gizmodo to refrain from publishing the recorded audio of the exchange , unless any particular passing find to require future clarification . what is more , at eight points during the audience , Lee asked to go off the record . Accordingly , this interview has been divided into nine segment .
A transcript of the exchange , which has been condensed and edited for pellucidity , can be found below . Transcription aid was provided by Gizmodo ’s Bryan Menegus , Michael Nuñez , and William Turton .
1.
Keenan Trotter : To preface , I collected a bunch of questions from editorial stave fellow member at the acquired property . There might be some intersection . I ’ll essay to minimize that as much as potential , and then I have a few of my own questions patently .
Isaac Lee : I did n’t expect anything unlike .
Keenan : So these might not come in thematic packages .
Isaac : That ’s okay .
Keenan : The first question I have is : These posts that were delete — did you read them ?
Isaac : Have I show them ?
Keenan : Yes .
Isaac : Not thoroughly , and I do n’t have a judgment about them .
Keenan : Okay . Did anybody with an executive decision - make power study these post before deleting them ?
Isaac : I do n’t know .
Jay Grant : I ’m not sure this is really go to be relevant . I call back the challenge for Isaac as a corporate officer , he ’s sample to focus on keeping privileged conversations within the company , and discussing who take what and when puts him in an ill at ease position with respectfulness to the privilege .
Keenan : Well , I ’m not require who , I ’m just asking if .
Jay : Right . But I think you ’re asking about the context of a post and —
Keenan : Correct .
Isaac : Something I can answer is that no one from the editor in chief or the journalistic team made any judgments on the merits of those mail service .
Keenan : Okay . mediocre enough . And just as a preface to this , I was learn throughUnivision ’s S1 filingand one of the itemise risks of a public offering was union activity . The S1 filing said that one of the risks of investing is that Univision directly or indirectly rely upon local TV stations that have unionized members , and that a strike or some kind of work stoppage would impact Univision in the sense of its public evaluation . So my question is how would you or Univision as a whole react to a walkout on behalf of editorial employees of the win sites ?
Isaac : I can not answer on hypotheticals .
Keenan : Hypothetically .
Isaac : I ca n’t . I do n’t sleep together . It look . What ’s the cause for the walkout ? How is it carried ? How long does it last ? What is the message ? Things are not just black and white . It all depends on the way that it ’s carried out . But , I do n’t think that we have ever come across that at Univision . I do n’t experience , Jay ?
Jay : Yeah , I do n’t make love that you have much more to append to that . It ’s a little “ Here ’s a challenge . ” You make reference to S1 filing . We ’re in a mandatory quiet full stop . The S1 speaks for itself .
2.
Keenan : Have there been relatively late situations in which Univision has had to oppose reporters or chronicle from litigation ? And by judicial proceeding I do n’t mean right of first publication claims , I more mean subjects bringing traducement or libel causa .
Isaac : Lawsuits or threats ?
Keenan : Either , I judge .
Isaac : Of of course , all the time . And at Fusion too . We have a story that is going out tonight . We have a cease and desist letter and a threat of a cause and the story ’s lead out tonight .
Keenan : And that’sthe Melania story ?
Isaac : Yes .
Keenan : And I ’m take for granted it ’s from[Los Angeles entertainment attorney ] Charles severely ?
Isaac : I do n’t wanna get into specific names —
Keenan : Fair enough , fair enough .
Isaac : But the answer [ to the question of whether Univision defends reporters from litigation ] is of trend . It ’s the normal cost of doing business . It ’s what we do here every solar day . One affair that I would like to mention — we have two lawyers that are supervising and facilitate editors , [ they ] have all the necessary tools to do their jobs well . One of them isEric Liebermanwho used to be the general counsel at the Washington Post , who is a very , very good first amendment lawyer and has all the experience come from the Post . And the other one isRick Altabefwho was urge to me by[investigative diarist ] Lowell Bergmanand spent 30 - plus geezerhood at 60 Minutes and also has a lot of experience in this . And what they do is help journalists to detect the way to be able their stories being stringent , and I trust them and they exercise really enceinte with the news team .
Keenan : Speaking of those , the following query could either be digressive or key . One of the interrogative sentence I have about the process by which the posts were acquire down concerns my understanding that none of your First Amendment attorney looked at the story , it was all strictly whether or not it dependant as a liability under the terms of the acquisition , correct ?
Isaac : Mmmhm .
Keenan : To me that ’s concerning because Univision , or at least the citizenry I ’ve take heed from at Univision , are tell people at the acquired site that A ) this was n’t about the editorial capacity —
Isaac : on-key .
Keenan : Is it fair to say Univision consider them to be true otherwise ?
Isaac : I do n’t get it on . I do n’t know if we have made any judgment whatsoever . The only thing I can recount you is that they characterise as a liability . If you ’re croak into a failure legal proceeding in an auction to acquire an plus where the liabilities are worth more than the assets and the commitment that we had with the fellowship was that we were not buy the farm to carry on any liabilities from the past times so as long as those posts are considered liabilities we could not take them .
Keenan : So my follow-up motion would be — and I remember this might go back to the fact that apparently there is some doubt as to whether these posts were actually read by anybody — if you looked at these posts , and this is a hypothetical so you do n’t have to say yes or no . Hypothetically , if you were to look at these posts and find them honest , interesting , newsworthy — would you publish them ?
Isaac : Mhmm . If I read any situation , any situation , and it ’s vet by mass that I trust — would I publish them ? Of course .
Keenan : Hypothetically speak , if the sites affected by the takedowns were to just say , here ’s the content of the posts that was edit due to a technicality of the acquisition terms , would that be like a atomic dud , or would that just be finding a way around the learning terms ?
Isaac : If it opens a liability for the company which we were instruct not to carry over , it will be impossible to do . If it does n’t , we ’ll talk about it .
Keenan : Just as a sidebar , I believe most if not all of the posts in question , the one that drew judicial proceeding are reproduced in court documents . When somebody file a defamation lawsuit they often include the article as an display and , I ’m not an expert on the case law regarding the publication of court of law written document , but the general principle , as I understand it , is that reporters and outlets are more often than not protected from slander and libel complaint concerningthe publication of court documents —
Isaac : Keenan , “ generally ” is the correct tidings . But it ’s generally . I intend that we have seen and see in the past distich of months that what seems to be coarse sense or a general rule does not always apply and I have a responsibility to a company not to bring unneeded or undesirable risk in our aim to save six assets and a radical of amazing , talented , independent diary keeper with a singular vocalisation . So only because this was a very unique transaction happen in failure , where we had the authority to produce only the asset , we had to take that choice . There was not a perchance or a possibility or an if . It was the option between , either you bid for Gawker Media Group and you acquire it and you do n’t bring that liability to the company for the future , or you do n’t . And there was not a utter answer . But I take to do what I chose to do . Am I being precise ?
Jay : You ’re being precise —
Isaac : you could ask as much as you want —
Keenan : To me it ’s concerning that First Amendment lawyer were not even looped into this conversation because —
Jay : I think you ’re mischaracterizing what he enunciate . And I think we also say we were n’t fail to mouth about conversations that were had in connection with that .
3.
Keenan : I guess I ’m say — I just want to explicate my reasoning in this face as a setting . My sympathy of the billet refer me because there is sort of a certain custom at the sites of , you sleep together , of having sort of an insane in - depth discernment of what we can and can not print . And we ’ve often taken that up and to the sharpness , right ? But that also means that-
Isaac : You mean , very border ?
Keenan : Yeah ! But that also necessitates a sealed , I do n’t guess rascality is the veracious Bible , but an cleverness regarding , Okay , how do we get this release ?
Isaac : Keenan . So to your peace of intellect I can tell you that in the regular trend of business , not looking at this specific and isolated event in a bankruptcy court , that will continue to be the case .
Keenan : Is there — one of the things that I ’ve been hearing from mass that I ’ve discuss this with is that there is — I mean , first of all , we lost Gawker Department of Transportation com .
Keenan : And —
Isaac : Why ?
Keenan : What ’s that ?
Keenan : I think of there were a act of reasons one of which was — well , the reason that you said — the judgement that was handed down by a Florida panel in March . And , speaking in price in comparison to what ’s happening now , [ the end point of Gawker.com ] was a comparatively dramatic event - free transition . Would you say ? Or no ?
Isaac : What I can tell you is that I can relate perfectly well with the journalist at Gawker Media Group and all of its sites , because they have had to endure a very difficult cognitive operation and they have seen a company built by wit and hard work fall apart . And that causes anxiousness and that keeps the great unwashed out of focal point . And my intention is to get everyone to look forward and to focus on the company that we can build together . I understand that a post - traumatic emphasis disorder event does n’t go away from one day to the other . That there are many sensitivities . I am perfectly fine with hoi polloi utter their thoughts and sensitiveness and dealing with that . I care the transparentness of it . It is part of what is invoke to me about Gawker . And I am really not the one to label what ’s drama - free or not dramatic event - devoid because it is — it ’s severely compared to what ?
Keenan : Compared to this . I signify , generally , would you say there ’s a lot more pushback about the deleted posts versus mothballing Gawker.com ?
David Ford : Can I just make one point of clarification — are we still off the record or are on the record ?
Keenan : I think we ’re on the record .
Isaac : Yeah , we ’re back . We ’re back .
Keenan : Okay . I think they were just talking about — I cogitate I enjoin we ’re back on the record .
Isaac : Yeah , you ’re full . So I consider that what happens is that the cognitive process with Gawker is a appendage that took a long clock time . Okay ? When you hombre go through the difficulty of the Condé Nast CFO story and decided to take that berth down , and some people cease their jobs , et cetera . There was already a rebranding and a new mission for a fresh Gawker . So it was not the Gawker that it was before . Okay ? And that was jolly unexampled . And then when that asset was take to court and had to go through all of what we picture in court , I conceive that it was open to everyone that Gawker had lose a fight with very powerful interests . And that was it . I think that the result was so big and the consequences so unfathomed that the reaction was , you know , it was a bland - line , all right ?
Keenan : Well —
Isaac : I think that mass thought that , okay , that was the price we had to give , now let ’s focalize on the future . Now , countenance ’s look forward , and then these came out as a surprise . And the fact that it come out as a surprise — it ’s a error from everyone , including me , who deal the unconscious process , because we could have informed you and your colleagues in a much better , constructive way of what was move on , not to have a surprise . The fact is that this is a conversation that happened for a couple of weeks , where everything was discussed , where everyone was involved and no one was misled . And the only reason why the decisiveness came to happen on a Friday was for two reasons . Because we had to decide at that point if we were — and please correct me if I ’m wrong , Jay — if we were going to take down only the ace that had pending judicial proceeding or we were going to take down the other ones that had threat of litigations and posed risk to the fellowship . And we hired outside counsel , and we had advice , and we decided to allow for those [ mail service that receive terror of litigation ] and to fight them and to fight them as we will any stake in the future . And that happened on Friday . And the only moment where we could lead off to do that was after the bankruptcy motor lodge would give us the asset and make it ours . And at that spot is where we , stick with the subroutine of the union agreement , pass away through the process and took the post down .
Keenan : Okay .
Isaac : Did I explain myself ?
Keenan : Um , well , yeah I think you adequately explain the timeline of the situation — is there a specific reason why this was n’t pass along to — I mean , so you ’re suppose that they ingest this vote in anticipation of being handed the plus at midnight on Friday night , correct ?
Isaac : I am not sure .
Jay : Yeah , again —
Keenan : Is this a inside thing ?
Jay : Yeah .
Keenan : Oh , okay .
Jay : You ’re speak in condition of — first of all it involves a complexity of failure auction sale process and the timing associated with that based on the magistrate ’s orders and instructions , so to have Issac opine on that ignore an entire set of background regarding the physical process and what was going on in universal with esteem to finalize the agreement per the bankruptcy court ’s ordination .
Isaac : Keenan —
Jay : One portion of it does n’t give the context of use —
Isaac : I did n’t go to the vendue .
Keenan : Right .
Isaac : I was not involved in the auction proceedings . I ’m not a lawyer . I ’m not an accountant . Do n’t have much to add . What I have is a very substantial belief in the people that work at Gawker Media and their ability to produce amazing subject matter and build brands that are already powerful , but with the right resource and support can grow more .
Keenan : I ’m not sure if I ’m going to be able to phrase this as a question but is there — This is just a statement basically .
Keenan : Which I believe channels and encapsulate a lot .
Isaac : The feeling of many people ?
Keenan : Yeah .
Isaac : Okay .
Keenan : Is that Univision is severalise us that they ’re going to defend us but they have not yet demonstrated that fact , they ’ve not done anything concrete to show that .
Keenan : They ’ve say that they will , but we don’t — a subsidiary company number of this is the fact our contracts do not include indemnity .
Isaac : Okay , so — let ’s separate the two things .
Keenan : Sure .
Isaac : I agree with you . Nothing that I will say in this interview should give anyone the level of trust that they call for in order of magnitude to know that we are go bad to do everything that they expect us to do . Deeds speak louder than words . And we ’re going to have to give each other a full stop of time of working together to find out if we can build up that reliance . Both ways . We also do n’t jazz what the reaction of the employee and the endowment of Gawker is perish to be . Do we wish to build a team to bring together and fly high ? There is no doubtfulness . We just paid $ 135 million for it . And , by the room , just as a reminder , we were the only other company in America uncoerced to do so .
Keenan : Uh , I had a very effective doubt accede about that from Tom Scocca .
Isaac : Yeah , but let me finish . So , you ’ve ask that and it ’s good . And he ’s sassy too , so I ’ll reply whatever question he has . So what was I talking about ? Sorry , David . I got discombobulate .
David : It was the , I ca n’t remember , you were separating the employment part —
Isaac : Ah , okay . Trust is built with fourth dimension and deeds . The only advice that I can give to my new colleagues at Gawker is to talk to their colleagues at Univision and at Fusion where they are implausibly competent journalists that have been doing their line of work for a long time , winning the best awards in journalism . Working on taradiddle that are complex . And they will be able to speak louder than any words that I can tell you , because they will be able to tell you if they have had the backing , the bread and butter , the encouragement of the leading of this ship’s company . It will be my only advice , it will be what I would do as a reporter if I ’m conk out to go and work with someone , I am going to talk to the people that have worked with them . And I would also find out what is the fiber of Fusion and Univision made of . I mean who are the people here and how do we handle that ? I conceive that Univision has a very strong book of 50 plus years of standing for what we believe in . I do n’t think that we are afraid to stand up to a presidential candidate or to a billionaire or to a country . And that speaks bulk as to who we are as a journalistic institution .
Keenan : So I ’m gon na get to Tom ’s question in a picayune morsel .
Isaac : Go ahead .
Keenan : But you said that we should verbalize to hoi polloi at Fusion and Univision . Correct ?
Isaac : No , it ’s what I would do .
Keenan : Well , so , uh — there has n’t been a lot of — I’ll just say this in a flash —
Isaac : Sure , go ahead .
Keenan : Glenn Greenwald , who I ’m take on you know .
Isaac : I know , yeah .
Keenan : Herecently tweetedthat Univision ’s decisiveness to move out these six posts was , and I quote , “ a major assault on journalism . ”
Keenan : And sometime thereafterMaría Elena Salinasof Univision Newsretweeted that program line . And , I can add to that , an editor program at Fusion squeeze that , regarding the deletion of the posts,“This is deeply untimely in so many ways”and“This is deeply not good . ”Anda Fusion reportertweeted “ This is the wrong decision and it ’s a really cowardly one . ” So this is what we ’re hearing from our Fusion colleagues .
Isaac : Okay —
Keenan : And the conscientious objector - host of one of Univision ’s flagship eventide newscasts .
Isaac : Okay , sightly . What I can answer to that is that I am hunky-dory with people having objection . And expressing their impression . Nobody here has to come after a political party line . I am sure that what they felt with the information they had — retweeting does n’t always signify approving .
Keenan : Of of course .
Isaac : I retweet many things because I want to highlight that the commentary is inappropriate , not because I harmonize with it , but I encourage you to spill to María Elena . Call her and say , “ Hey , you made this retweet , I would know to know if you have experienced lack of support on your journalistic endeavor from Univision or if you feel that they tolerate with what you believe in . And that if you get in trouble they will be behind you . ” And whatever she answer , has time value . The retweet , there ’s very little I can say aside for the fact that I respect her tweet or retweet or gloss on whatever she wants . On the two gentlemen at Fusion , call them up . “ Hey cat , we visit this and this is very interesting , what ’s your experience ? When did you have to take down a story ? Who has ever pressure you from the advertising section ? When have you ever felt that the corporation is more important than the wholeness of the news program section ? ” And if they have something to say about that , use it !
Keenan : Well , I feel like their stance would not be that , I mean , I ’m extrapolating , I ’m enter a hypothetical world here , but my good sense is that they ’re saying this because it defy their experience . Not because it comported with it .
Isaac ( to David ): Can you explain that to me ? I ’m sorry .
David : I think they ’re saying — they were saying those things because it does n’t reflect the experience that they ’ve had to date .
Isaac : Oh , okay . Well , I am certain of that . I am also certain that as many of our colleagues at Gawker , they do n’t have all the facts . All they are seeing is that after a foresighted , painful conflict , where Gawker decease because of those interests going after it , they read a rubric that articulate that six post are taken down . I am sure that if I have , you be intimate , 120 seconds to explain to them that we had to select between not contain the liabilities forward and acquiring the fellowship — continue all of the journalists and move forrader or not doing the deal at all — I desire that they would have another point of survey .
Keenan : Tim Marchman , at Deadspin . He wanted to ask a few questions , the first of which was , was there anything forestall Univision from creating an extension to the no financial obligation provision of the agreements ? And , if not , why did n’t they create one for these story , pass that they present very little risk given the connected lawsuit ’s frivolous nature ?
Isaac : Tim , great —
Jay : Asking question about the exceptions to the agreement , how the correspondence is make , I just do n’t have a go at it if that ’s a worthful use of the fourth dimension . generate into this privileged area to an extent he had information .
Keenan : Right —
Jay : Just my cerebration , I do n’t know if you want to paraphrase it .
Keenan : In the sector of non - privileged discussion , were you aware of any attempt to head off the present situation in which six posts that masses generally recognize to be genuine were deleted .
Isaac : After listening to experts and consulting with legal counsellor we were capable to keep some up because they would not classify as a liability in the record book of the company , but since the mandate was to develop assets , and not liability , disregardless of the merit of why they are liabilities , we could n’t take the other one .
Keenan : And that mandate came from the plug-in , correct ?
Isaac : No . That — first , whatever happens under something that I am in mission of you could blame it or put it on me . I assume responsibility for everything . The mandate that was give to me by the company , was that . And that ’s what I carry out . And I had to choose if I could live with that or if it was better not to acquire the caller . That was the choice .
Keenan : Okay , so , Tim Marchman ’s follow up dubiousness interest — and I sympathize if this is getting into a privileged domain so if it does I just ask that you exclude the portion of your answer that might get caught in that web — but was there an plant definition for what may I call ongoing litigation ? [ Marchman ] asked that in regard to the Mitch Williams example , which we make headway on summary judgement —
Isaac : Yeah , I have no idea . This was not under my purview . I did not make that analysis choice or decision . It was done by very competent lawyer who advised the company .
Keenan : Okay , and that was Jay and Felipe ? Or —
Isaac : Felipe ’s not a attorney .
Jay : We ca n’t use this unconscious process to blab about who made decisions , what treatment were had with whom . If the questions are a backend to —
Keenan : I did n’t mean that as , like , a conjuring trick —
Jay : No , no !
Isaac : No , no .
Jay : But the fact — the result of it is kind of an end - test around that result , no matter what , in forcing him either to divulge a process , even accidentally — and I ’m not pronounce you were designate to do that , but that ’s the solvent . So I do n’t cognise that we can really have the questions because the solvent is learn a luck at damage the company ’s privilege and the caller ’s hold on internal communication theory .
Keenan : Is it potentially damaging to either of those two imperative to ask if John Cook ’s memorandum sent on Friday eve was accurate , concerning the appendage by which those posts were flag for excision ?
Isaac : have me tell you something . I thought John Cook beam a very good memoranda , I think that he was sensible . I think that everything that I , I do n’t remember on the dot what the memo said but key things accurately and I all understand that he vote no and that he dissented . That ’s what any responsible for editor - in - chieftain would have done . That ’s his job . To put out taradiddle .
Keenan : Right . Okay . Fair .
Isaac : And the two Univision executives were not there giving their ruling . They were just executing a mandate .
Keenan : So you ’re , and again , and I did not designate to trick you into violating —
Isaac : Do n’t worry .
Keenan : So you ’re saying that the interim world-wide counsel and interim chief executive officer relied upon other lawyers that you brought in to measure the likely risk .
Jay : I apologize , Keenan , I ’m not trying to make this difficult for you but it ’s , you fuck , describing the process by which the vote was taken such that the result of the failure asset purchase can be complete , your question just results in realize the entire sound and corporate privilege process by which that happened .
Jay : I do n’t know how to fix that .
Isaac : Keenan , this was not a regular transaction . This was not the even course of business . We acquired The Root and nothing like this happened . We acquired The Onion and nothing like this happened . We evolve Fusion , nothing like this happened . This was a very specific case of a company in failure where we had to go to an auction at the court and buy the asset . If that would n’t be the grammatical case , the situation would have been different .
Keenan : Okay . That ’s fair . And then Tim Marchman ’s , I consider —
Isaac : And , by the way , I know nothing about bankruptcy and court and all that —
Keenan : I sympathize that .
Isaac : It is a very complex public , really , when these guy explain to me the detail of was live on on , it ’s dotty .
4.
Keenan : So Tim Marchman ’s next-to-last inquiry was , do you think it ’s reasonable to expect a reporter who is n’t indemnify to pursue aggressive , adversarial insurance coverage at a potentially contentious matter ? And if yes , why ?
Isaac : Can you please go slowly because those are too many complicated Scripture for me ?
Keenan : Do you cogitate it ’s fairish for a reporter at any of the sites — or even Fusion — who is not indemnify to pursue aggressive , adversarial coverage of a study that might litigate them ?
Isaac : Coverage by who ?
Keenan : The newsman . A reporter who is n’t repair at Univision — do you think it ’s sane to really pursue a live story that might leave in judicial proceeding if they ’re not indemnify ?
Isaac : Why would n’t they be ?
Keenan : Because they ’re not indemnified .
Isaac : They are .
Keenan : But that ’s not in writing .
Isaac : I do n’t cognise what is in writing or not in authorship , and I infer that you guys are newfangled , but what I can tell you is that Univision has had and will continue to have an damages policy that covers all of Univision employee for any judicial proceeding if it ’s within their class or scope of work .
Keenan : Is that a write policy or is that a de facto policy ?
Isaac : It is a fact . And we have never allow anyone be out there without guard them and giving them all the funding .
Keenan : Is it unreasonable to call for , if what you ’re say is true , which is that every Univision employee is indemnified , is it unreasonable to ask why that is not in piece of writing ?
Jay : He state every employee is indemnified —
Keenan : Oh sorry — newsman —
Jay : No , no , you made a cover affirmation . He account their ambit of utilisation , et cetera .
Keenan : Under what you described as the understand terminus of indemnification , which is that —
Isaac : I will never get anyone on a newsworthiness squad that is working with me alone in any suit in any battle .
Keenan : Okay . Is there something preventing that from being put in writing ?
Jay : I ’m not certain we ’re follow what you ’re order .
David : I guess he ’s saying —
Keenan : Well , certain word organizations have written redress article in employee contracts .
[ At this point in the central , Gizmodo and Lee concisely discussed the employee damages policy of Gawker Media . We are redacting this portion of the interview on the advice of our own effectual direction . ]
Isaac : What I can tell you is that I trust Univision , I desire that the decisions that they made to take the veracious policy is a good one . We have an amazing general direction and squad of people who are always there to help . And I am absolutely certain that if a journalist doing their job is ever in any situation of risk — sound , safety , personal , or whatever the case is — we will always bear behind them .
Keenan : I ’m ask if you appreciate the fact that the employee of the six site may not be —
Isaac : I understand .
Keenan : Their hesitation , you would say ?
Isaac : I realize very well that the employee of the six sites have just fit through a very difficult , abominable prison term . And some of their colleague are going through hell , and this makes them anxious . I also understand that before we adopt the company , Gawker did not have an redress clause for them and that create even more concern . And I understand that that prompts inquiry , and I think they ’re perfectly sensible and I call back that we should explain it to them . Now , if that is going to be sufficient enough for them or not as I ’m telling you , only prison term will tell . Only when there is a reporter that is going to get a lawsuit and we ’re go to send our proficient lawyers to stand up behind them , then you guys are lead to see , Ah , yes , they do have this insurance insurance policy and they keep their Christian Bible and they digest behind journalists .
Isaac : Do I call back that the journalists at the six verticals at Gawker deserve to have a different treatment of the journalists at Univision , Fusion , and The Root ? I do n’t see why .
Keenan : Well , there ’s two ways to answer that interrogative , the first of which is , yes , they should be handle differently because they just had six Emily Price Post that were the subject of litigation , but were otherwise true , deleted . And in so far as that presents a unique situation , that would by logical issue merit a unequalled handling . And then the other style of responding to that is to argue that multitude at Univision and Fusion or the Root should not be treated differently . They should also get indemnity clauses .
Isaac : But they are protected .
Isaac : I do n’t know if what they want is something written on their article —
Keenan : Yeah , that ’s what they —
Univision employee , inscribe conference way : Time is a petty piece of the yield right now for sending to passkey ascendance .
Isaac : Okay . Give me 15 minutes please , please , fine ?
Univision employee : Okay .
Isaac : Sorry .
Keenan : I trust this was Tim Marchman ’s last question — just to put the insurance thing in clearest potential terms .
Isaac : Sure .
Keenan : And this was Tim Marchman ’s question : Considering the fact that the entirety of the editorial staff are spooked about the deleted post , and considering that Univision is presenting their cut as an unusual person , do you think it ’s fair to demand that stave members have indemnity clause amended to their contracts ?
Isaac : I cogitate that we ’re taking an obscure interview that is colligate to the acquisition of a troupe in bankruptcy and using that isolated outcome to talk about a union contract . And I intend that we should treat with things one step at a clock time . I am explaining this as best as I can today . I ’m very happy to have Jay talk to Heather and our legal counselor and see what is it that is concerning to them and how we can address it . I always want the great unwashed to feel good and protected . And what they also have to have intercourse is feeling , this chance on a Friday nighttime . Yesterday I sent a memoranda to all staff . I spoke on the phone to several of them . Sunday I ’m blab out to you . So I read that some people are angry that I did not — how is it that they put it , that I did not show my aspect ? Or whatever?—I reckon I ’m being very accessible and I ’m showing you guys that this is very important for me . That it ’s personal . And that I wish . And that ’s the content that I want to number across .
Keenan : Okay . Just as a programming note , do you have to leave in 15 minutes ?
Isaac : I have to go down to the control room .
Keenan : Can we resume the audience after that ?
Isaac : If we have to ? Yeah . It ’s gon na take a while .
Jay : We ’re just approaching almost 50 minutes so —
Isaac : How much more metre you ask ?
Keenan : I have about three more varlet of interrogative sentence . And they ’re in pretty braggart case , in my handwriting , so I can go through them quickly . So this is from Bryan at Gizmodo .
Isaac : Which Bryan ?
Keenan : Menegus I mean his name is?I am entirely botching his last name .
Isaac : It ’s all right .
Keenan : He had two question — and I think you may have commune this before but in case you want to add together something — but his interrogative sentence was : Why was the takedown not communicated to staff in a timely manner ?
Jay : Assuming a lot , that question .
Isaac : They were our stave Friday at 12 a.m.
Keenan : You mean high noon ?
Isaac : No , night .
Jay : Saturday dark .
Keenan : Oh , yeah . I ’m talk about Friday .
Isaac : Before that it was not our faculty .
Keenan : So if I empathize you correctly , you could n’t communicate it to us .
Isaac : I could n’t . It was not under my purview to insert myself in a company that is still not ours and pass affair to people . And Keenan , that does n’t imply that this was not soundly discuss with several people from both company and that it was decided at the last moment for the reasons that I explained .
Keenan : Bryan ’s 2nd question was , we were —
Isaac : These are all very honorable questions . No , I ’m serious . You ’re asking things that I would enquire , too .
Keenan : He refer to you by name but I ’m just going to say : We were given your word of Univision ’s allegiance to good news media and in every way these put-down run counter to that . What proof can Univision give us , in writing , that this will not be an ongoing method of dealing with controversy ?
Isaac : I completely reject that statement . I do n’t think that a transaction to acquire and save a valuable caller with — how many journalists ?
Keenan : I think the editorial head count was about 100 .
Isaac : With 100 journalists that are brave and merit better can be counter to defending honorable journalism . And if the price that you have to take for that is not to have the society that is acquire carry dangerous liabilities to the time to come , I chose to pay that price and the only mode that he can know how we deal with tilt is how we have care with controversy in the yesteryear .
Keenan : When ’s the last time somebody was sued at this company ?
Jay : He ca n’t go through the chronicle of litigation —
Keenan : I do n’t think it ’s inordinate to take for precedents .
5.
Keenan : Has it ever been the grammatical case at this ship’s company that an individual diary keeper has been action ?
Isaac : I ’m sure .
Keenan : Can you name one ?
Isaac : …
Jay : Isaac ca n’t serve your enquiry because he ’s not our psyche of litigation , who would know it . I do n’t even know it myself .
Isaac : So let me put it this elbow room : Have journalists here been endanger with judicial proceeding ? Many , many fourth dimension . You desire to let the cat out of the bag to one that has?Gerardo Reyes .
Keenan : Okay . But just to reiterate , you ca n’t recall a state of affairs at this company in which an private journalist was sued ?
Isaac : It ’s not that I ca n’t recall . I ’m not indisputable what I can say or ca n’t say about pending cases .
Keenan : I ’m come from a mathematical group of people — one of the Post that was delete concerned a subject who sue me in person for $ 55 million . It is concerning that you’re able to not , that nobody in this room can seem to retrieve a case at this company in which an individual journalist was sued . Because that would hint that you do not have , that this companionship does not have a standard operating procedure for when that occurs .
Jay : No , no , no . That ’s a huge August 15 .
Keenan : I ’m telling you what I ’m thinking .
Isaac : You ’re jumping to conclusions .
Keenan : What conclusion did I reach ?
Jay : The initial conversation we were n’t talking about privileged matters or internal company judicial proceeding matters . I ’m not sitting here as the head of litigation . That ’s one of the reasons I would not have that information for you . adopt the head of litigation was here , he would have that information for you . Isaac does not worry about the judicial proceeding because he has a head of judicial proceeding to take care of those matters for him . So , A ) we probably should n’t be blab out about judicial proceeding . I ’m sure there are case publicly file . If you require to peach to our foreland of judicial proceeding about file cabinet cases , that ’s a different issue . But it ’s really an inappropriate use of his time . He ’s not going to roll in the hay about ongoing litigation .
Keenan : Yeah , but that ’s —
Jay : He has a team that handles litigation . Isaac may never see a charge , may never know that a complaint is filed . I am a transactional lawyer . I may not know that it is file .
Isaac : countenance me endeavor to understand , Keenan , what your concern and your point to see if I can accost them . What I do n’t want is that being sue becomes a badge of laurels . That that is the litmus run to who ’s doing fearless news media or not . When we have not been process , it ’s because the deservingness have never been there , and because our lawyers are damn good and they have defend our news department smartly . Have we ever stopped publish a history because we were jeopardise ? No . Have we ever occupy a post down in the history of Univision and Fusion ? One . And it was because it was a someone under the witnesser security plan , and that someone requested for us to take away it , and not to put his personal safety in danger . We think it was a sensible affair to do , although we were not ordered to do it . Aside from that , not once have we pulled a post down . I ’ve record some of your premature consultation , Keenan , and there has never been a case where there was a conflict between the line of work or sale department and the news department about any post . And never have we taken down a post or alter a story because of pressure from gross revenue .
Keenan : Okay , that ’s fair enough . This is from Stassa Edwards from Jezebel , she really live on in Miami : Is Univision willing to devote in authorship to not deleting any more C. W. Post whether or not there ’s legal action or menace of legal activity ? I ’m not sure if you ’re in a capability to answer that dubiousness .
Isaac : I am just not really sure it ’s a good question . Can you read it to me again ?
Keenan : Is Univision uncoerced to consecrate in composition to not cancel any more Post whether or not there ’s legal action or threat of legal action ?
Isaac : Univision is unforced to entrust that , if we do fearless but also rigorous news media that meets the touchstone that we have to fill , we will never delete those posts .
Isaac : There ’s one while that I would ask you to highlight however you care . The Bible fearless has to be paired with the word rigorous . There can not be one without the other .
Keenan : I ’m going to assay to phrase this question , deal our parallel conversation about inner conversations , so that it does not violate anything .
Isaac : Go ahead . Shoot .
Keenan : The case of one of the deleted post , Charles C. Johnson , recently claim several times on his Facebook page that he is in settlement dialogue with Univision . Can you say whether or not that ’s straight ?
Jay : He ca n’t annotate .
Isaac : I have never been informed or aware or have had a conversation with him . That does n’t mean it might have pass or will come about .
Keenan : Stassa said she was require her question because editorial employees have confront targeted molestation by individuals like Johnson , so settling with him would come out to incentivize such harassing conduct .
Isaac : In the hereafter , anyone — I do n’t care if it ’s someone else or this guy — that ’s harassing one of our diary keeper will be harassing Univision , and we will deal with it .
Keenan : I guess you ca n’t say whether you ’ve settled with any study of a narration , correct ?
Jay : Yeah , he ca n’t comment on litigation matter .
Isaac : I fuck we have n’t , but I ca n’t say . So I — Keenan — I ca n’t say it . I ’m distinguish you I sleep with we have n’t but I ca n’t say it .
Keenan : Okay . Fair . This one is from Julianne Escobedo Shepherd , also from Jezebel : Are you or is Univision , loosely speaking , aware of who Charles C. Johnson is ?
Isaac : Not particularly .
Keenan : Her motion was : What kind of foresight was put into the concept of Univision inherently accept financial obligation for other office by unpublishing the 1 that they unpublished ? I gauge that ’s sort of a intellectual interrogative sentence .
Jay : Wait , can you read that again ?
Isaac : I got a short lose , that was a slight too sophisticated for me .
Keenan : What form of foresightfulness was put into the concept of Univision inherently — she might mean implicitly — accepting the liability of other posts —
Isaac : Got it . Yeah . Okay . So the solvent , if I understand right , is that those threat of those posts do not comprise pending litigation . So they would not be restricted in the books as a liability . Since what we were apprise to do was not acquire liability but plus , those we could hold with us and defend vigorously .
Keenan : I mean that answers that doubtfulness . I think her enquiry was , to what academic degree was the entire process considered ? Like , was it sort of a flush job . And again , I feel like I ’m prick you into violating privilege , but is it accurate to say this was a considered thing ?
Isaac : Let me answer the way I can . Acquiring a fellowship like Gawker after what Gawker rifle through , in a failure court , for $ 135 million , is not a decision you rush .
Keenan : Okay . I think that respond her question . She ’ll let me cognise if it did n’t answer her query .
David : I just want to be cognizant of time , because I screw that you both have flight and that you [ Isaac ] have to review this affair before it air tonight .
Jay : And that should be given some time and condition . I recall we should do one or two questions .
David : You have several pages that you ’d wish to get through .
Keenan : I can stay here tonight . I ’ll do anything to get these enquiry answered .
Isaac : rent ’s endeavor to do them as promptly as potential . This is going to take a long time and this is going to air at 7 o’clock tonight .
Keenan : To what arcdegree will Univision be vetting the post that the six sites publish if at all ?
Isaac : Univision ?
Isaac : It will be Jezebel and Kotaku and Deadspin and —
Keenan : And that will generally just go through[Gawker Media ’s deputy general counsel ] Courtenay [ O’Connor ] ?
Isaac : Whoever is in billing of [ the sound department ] . I have discover the world of Courtenay . I have heard she ’s wonderful . Can I say that the only person will ever in this troupe in the succeeding ex-serviceman stories is Courtenay ? I ca n’t . I do n’t know what her plans in spirit are . But badly . Do I think very extremely of her ? Yes . Do we get into vetting post ? Call Alexis Madrigal . Have you met him ?
Keenan : I have n’t .
Isaac : But you know who he is ?
Keenan : Yeah , he ’s the editor - in - tribal chief of Fusion .
Isaac : And you knowKevin Roose ?
Isaac : Pick up the earpiece . Dodai!Have you met Dodai ?
Keenan : I was at a party with her last nighttime .
Isaac : She ’s amazing .
Keenan : She spoke very highly of Fusion .
Isaac : take her how many time we ’ve gotten into one of her spot . I do n’t require to say this because it ’s ostentatious , and I do n’t want it to be on the record Keenan , but my occupation here is to open doorway and take obstacles so that our people can do their jobs . That ’s what I do . That ’s how I realize my Book of Job . So that ’s the only matter I do .
Keenan : For time compression interest , I cogitate you ’ve made it clear your feelings about Univision , but if we want to get through these doubt quickly — we don’t — I’m going to try out to say this in the nicest way possible — you do n’t have to — you know what I ’m saying .
Isaac : Got it ! Shoot ! Shoot !
Isaac : Do n’t reply nicely . Shoot !
Keenan : Is Univision ’s intent to make the six sites nicer ?
Isaac : I do n’t interpret the question . Better designed , you have in mind ?
Keenan : No , like , in the voice and the coverage .
Isaac : The reason why we are enthusiastic and bought those sites is because we think they have a unique part , which we mean to keep .
Keenan : This is from my confrere at Gizmodo , William Turton . Do you think the excision of the posts sends any kind of message to the subjects that any of the six sites might cover ? What variety of subject matter do you think the deleting of the posts send off to others , peculiarly the powerful subject of history ?
Isaac : I have no approximation .
Keenan : Okay . Fair enough . His concern is that the deletion of the post essentially sends a signal to the people we ’re writing about .
Isaac : Those same guys are require for cease and refrain , and threatening us , and we ’re dealing with them . If they are smart , they are noticing that we made a financial conclusion in a transaction , but that the means that we conduct business is a serious one .
Keenan : This was from Veronica — and I ’m trying to be close to my colleagues —
Isaac : You ’re doing a expectant job . The only reason I ’m doing this is for them . I thank you for impart their questions .
Keenan : This is from Veronica de Souza , she runs social media for all of the six land site . Her motion is , why did you send the email about the decision to delete the posts after they were delete ? Why were you not involve in telling the staff ? I believe you answer that question because it was the technicality that it was not your place to plow a faculty that you technically did not own .
Isaac : Veronica , the ship’s company was ours at 11:59 p.m. on a Friday even . I send my email on a Saturday . I spoke with several of your colleagues on Saturday , and I meet with Keenan on Sunday . That ’s my answer .
Keenan : Her other question is are you sound to come to NY to address the staff ?
Isaac : I desire to be there many time to address the staff many times . I stand for , yes , of course .
Keenan : The follow questions are from Katharine at Gizmodo / io9 . Her first question was , how disingenuous is it for Univision to come into our function and severalize us that they believe in what we do and then proceed to edit these post ? Or you see any disingenuousness in that process ? I intend you say the process by which everything happened was a misunderstanding . Or was less than idealistic .
Isaac : It was less than ideal , yes . But from her question , what I can tell her is that we are not disingenuous . We live on in the tangible humankind . so as to conduct business organization , there are some time that you have to make decision , and not all of the decision you make are the ones that you like .
Keenan : Her second question is : Is it not more expensive in the long - term to bespeak to all the mass we ’ve written critically about that they can subside with Univision .
Isaac : We ’re not settling with anyone .
Keenan : Okay , fairish enough . What did you expect Gawker Media ’s staffers to do when these posts were edit ?
Isaac : precisely what they ’re doing now . My only promise is that whatever dissent and question is carry in a manner where we give an illustration of why this is a worthful company . Not prove to the masses that consider that it is n’t that they are right .
Keenan : Her second - to - last question was , what is Heather Dietrick ’s role go forth ? What is Courtenay O’Connor ’s part go ahead ?
Jay : That ’s inside . Those are internal corporate discussions and you ’re asking about someone to personnel decision .
Isaac : The reply is , we got the society yesterday . We ’ll soon find out .
Keenan : I ’m assuming this question —
Isaac : Just ask !
Keenan : Why were Heather and Courtenay not part of the ballot process conceive their cognition of cases and the actual liability that they get .
Jay : The interrogative sentence adopt a lot . It gets into how the appendage pop off and the employment product and the procedure of the work product . Then on top of it you ’re throwing in specific someone and speak about sort of internal personnel and I understood that this was not the time —
Keenan : Well , I think —
6.
Keenan : Are we back on the record ?
Together : Now we ’re on the record . We can be on the criminal record now .
Jay : We ca n’t talk about the process —
Keenan : I empathise . I understand .
Jay : Again , and I appreciate Issac want to be transparent . And we all love that and we postulate to do that while protect the privilege .
Isaac : No .
7.
Isaac : We believe , on the record , we believe in the future of Gawker Media Group . We trust in the people there . We conceive in the leading . And we want the company to be successful . It does n’t depend only on us .
Keenan : Okay . And her last question was , and I do n’t opine this should dishonour privilege , does Univision ’s location in Florida have any bearing on the reckoning to delete posts ?
Isaac : I ’m sorry . Does Univision what ?
Keenan : Does Univision ’s localization in Florida and thus — essentially she ’s need , is Univision being domiciliate in Florida and thus a subject area of Florida laws regarding First Amendment issues —
Isaac : I do n’t even think Univision is reside in Florida —
Jay : We ’re a Delaware bay window .
Isaac : Yeah , exactly .
Keenan : But that usually does n’t mean , it could still be believably sued in Florida because that ’s where its cognitive process are .
Jay : Yeah , that ’s the thing . Assuming he can translate all the thoughts that went into make a effectual determination which he was n’t a participant in —
Keenan : Yeah , and , strike we ’re still on the record here , an egress is that there was such a modest reverse clip to get these question quick that I could n’t state everyone , okay , here ’s how to frame thing , or whatever .
Isaac : And I could n’t make myself , either .
Keenan : Okay , so we ’re getting into the home reaching . Okay so , [ Fusion older editor ] Felix Salmon . Hetweeteda few weeks ago , “ I ’ve known and admire Issac Lee for about 13 years and can unequivocally say that he is the better potential boss that Gawker Media could have . ” And then hetweeted , “ No one , not even [ Gawker Media beginner and former CEO ] Nick Denton , is more committed to reliable fearless journalism . ” turn over the posts that have been deleted , do you agree with that argument , or do you disagree with that statement ? Or do you think that ’s an unfair doubt ?
Isaac : First , that ’s a statement coming from Felix . You should ask him if he agrees with that statement or not . I can severalize you that I look up to Felix a lot , regard him to be brilliant and one of the most crucial masses that we have on staff . And the fact that we had to take those post down in a bankruptcy subprogram in guild to acquire the asset have utterly nothing to do with being brave and doing good journalism .
8.
Keenan : in good order now I ’m crossing off questions that are redundant , so I have about six more questions .
Jay : How about three . We ’re hit a wall .
Keenan : A few are yes / no questions .
Keenan : Are you or are you not aware that Charles C. Johnson isattempting to organise a pro - Trump , anti - Univision rally in Fresno , Californiabased upon the fact that Univision take down the post about him ? It ’s just a yes or no question .
Isaac : If I know whether he ’s organize a pro - Trump , anti - Univision rally?Answer : I do n’t care .
Keenan : These questions are from Tom Scocca . Are you go to republish the posts ?
Isaac : Is that really a question ?
Keenan : That ’s what he asked me to ask you .
Isaac : I think the question does not need an answer after everything I ’ve explicate [ in this ] interview .
Keenan : Is it appropriate to say the implicit answer is no ?
Isaac : The implicit solvent is that ’s the past . period of time .
Keenan : Okay . Are Felipe and Jay going to be two - thirds of the six situation ’ independence panel give way forward ? Are the interim CEO and interim general counsel hold out to be a part of the editorial independence —
Keenan : When does that stop ?
Jay : You ’re asking about succeeding staff office determination
Isaac : But the answer is no . They ’re interim . By the mode , you should thank them . They ’re really nice guys . You want to get rid of them ?
Keenan : I am the watercraft of these head . I ’m going to assume this is bar from privilege , but I have to ask it : What aspect of the legal situation get Univision to take down the posts on a Friday after the conclusion of business hr ? I call back you already answered that .
Jay : Let ’s go to the next one .
Keenan : For the purposes of the copy , the ground Isaac could n’t do so was because of the technicalities of the skill , because Isaac could not address the company and it could not be carried out until Univision actually had the company ’s plus . This is second to last interrogative : If the tarradiddle were by definition impossible to keep up , why was n’t that communicated openly weeks ago ? And I believe you ’ve resolve that head —
Isaac : I think so too . But you may say that we never hid that that was a opening that that was being read . And everyone was aware .
Keenan : You ’re referring to the executive retinue of Gawker Media , correct ?
Jay : I just do n’t think there ’s anything more that needs to be said about the process .
Keenan : Just to premise , ever since we ’ve been acquired by Univision it ’s been communicate to staffers that the mental attitude within Univision and particularly from you , Isaac , is that our only other choice [ for acquisition ] was Ziff - Davis . And so Tom ’s dubiousness was — so any questions about Univision have been met with , Well , did you need Ziff - Davis ?
Isaac : Have I said that ?
Keenan : Yeah , that ’s what ’s been communicated to Gawker Media staffers .
Isaac : By me ?
Keenan : Not from you directly , but that ’s the attitude we see come from Univision .
Isaac : So , no . I do n’t see thing that way .
Keenan : But you pronounce , during this consultation , that there were only two party on the face of the satellite — so the attitude from Univision is we demand to be aware of how tenuous the situation is . So Tom ’s question is , What is the statute of restriction for Univision telling former Gawker Media employees that we should be thankful for being acquire ? Is this affectedness of , you should be thankful for being acquired —
Isaac : Listen , thankfulness is a tactual sensation you have , not one that you impose . So I never expect anyone to be grateful for anything . I just intend that thankful people are happier than ungrateful people .
Jay : I also want to say that I think you mischaracterized his statement about only two — he was referring to the bid process . The fact of the matter is there were two bidders .
Isaac : I ’ve never said anything like , “ So you prefer Ziff - Davis ? ” No . We know exactly what they were doing during the court procedures and what was going to materialize to the asset . Nick Denton is the only somebody that can excuse those matter to you .
9.
Keenan : Let ’s go back on the record and I ’ll ask .
Keenan : Do you call back Gawker Media employee should be thankful as opposed to plain raging that they were acquired by Univision ?
Isaac : I mean that Gawker Media employees have gone through a very difficult time and the only thing that they should do now is to focus the companionship that we have together for the futurity .
Jay : Is that the last interrogation ?
Keenan : That is the last dubiousness .
Jay : give thanks you all for being aware of the programming that ’s up there .
Isaac : Keenan , you ’re guilty of not telling me that they call you Keenan . You had me calling you “ J.K. ” How am I supposed to sleep with ?
Keenan : People call me both . Nick still calls me J.K. I never correct him .
Isaac : Really ? You never counterbalance him ?
Keenan : No .
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